Kyla!
hooligan
Posts: 1474
Joined: Mar. 2002
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There's a new zine out that's like a "how-to" and why to practice good consent, that goes a lot deeper into how what we want sexually is more complicated then the simple yes/no gatekeeper model we're taught.
A lot of people in this scene have had trouble navigating consent with ourselves and each other, so i wanted to put this out there because I found it really empowering and helpful.
I also want to put it out there because while i love our scene a lot, I know it is one in which boundaries are often violated, usually unintentionally. We've been really good at trying to support survivors, and i know a lot of us have been looking back and trying to examine ourselves and behavior, and I think this zine is a really good (the best i've found so far) jumping off point for doing that.
In sum: This scene can be sexist, abusive and fucked up. Be decent to each other. I would like you to read this.
pdf here:
http://zinelibrary.info/learning-good-consent
Buy it here:
http://doriszineblog.blogspot.com/2008....ne.html
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joy beats oppression. adventure as a form of protest!
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IdSaysGo
Come On!
Posts: 191
Joined: Sep. 2007
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I just considered printing out many copies of this and distributing them around my school, but then I remembered that nobody here has sex...
Good zine, though. Anything that makes for happier sex makes for a happier circus.
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erikthemod
..
Posts: 104
Joined: Sep. 2008
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pretty awesome.
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Ooohhhh Nooooo
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Nina
siqqnasty
Posts: 389
Joined: Aug. 2005
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I've seen this before!
These kids who graduated from my school are now a part of this organization called Philly Stands Up and did a workshop here which was pretty neat and passed some copies around.
pretty much cutest cover art, too.
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and I can be broo0o0oonzer than a penny
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LastofthePirates
Lovable Scamp
Posts: 2739
Joined: July 2007
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so if we're all gonna be equal who's gonna go on top?
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And when you fall in love me we can dig a hole by the willow tree. Then I will fuck you untill you die and bury you and kiss this town good bye
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bakunin
i will witness the fall of efrafa
Posts: 1100
Joined: Sep. 2007
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So while we're on the topic and trying to be more open, give me some perspective.
I read the first few pages of this and don't see anything wrong. The part that struck me was the Antioch College policy/having to ask before advancing past each stage. This is something that I've always tried to practice. Having been put in some uncomfortable positions in the past (not as the one promoting advancement), I've made a point to try and set pretty clear-cut consent.
However, I've found myself put in the position of being with partners who are not open to answering my questions. I get a "I'll tell you when you're going too far." "Just go with it and we'll see what happens." "I don't care."
Unfortunately, that necessitates me, well, going too far before receiving notification that I'm doing anything wrong.
That usually kills the interaction pretty quickly, first on an internal level for myself, and therefore on an external level for the interaction.
Sorry if this is covered and I haven't read far enough, but are these types of scenarios covered in this pamphlet? I'd love to see some coverage of how to deal with that/advice directed at those who are not clear in their boundaries.
Nobodys perfect, and this is not directed at anyone in particular. Its just something that I run into on a frequent basis and am really tired of. This is also not a claim that I'm perfect, of course I'm not. But I take great lengths to have healthy relationships, and would like to hear what others have dealt with.
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"Why do normally reasonable people turn into such elitist wankers when it comes to WIFS? So much for anarchy."
GIVE US THIS DAY
OUR DAILY DEAD
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LastofthePirates
Lovable Scamp
Posts: 2739
Joined: July 2007
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so the old "I like you alot and think we should fuck" line is ok?
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And when you fall in love me we can dig a hole by the willow tree. Then I will fuck you untill you die and bury you and kiss this town good bye
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agrivatedplatypus
Irritated Monotreme
Posts: 885
Joined: Feb. 2007
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Kyla, this is great and I wish more people would read it.
Thank you.
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"Here, put the moustaches in the hookah bag, and I'll carry it."
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The Igneous Faction
Fuck the Kids
Posts: 2764
Joined: Dec. 2002
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No cynicism here:
These are really important issues that everyone needs to get educated about.
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DEATH OBSESSED since Dec. 08 2002,10:55
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Will
I'm Bender, baby! Please insert liquor!
Posts: 2444
Joined: Mar. 2006
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| Quote (The Igneous Faction @ Dec. 14 2008,12:28) | No cynicism here:
These are really important issues that everyone needs to get educated about. |
no cynicism?!!
i think you just broke the internet...
anyway this shit is mad cool and im glad it is out there. hopefully i get a real chance to read it all later today
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LastofthePirates
Lovable Scamp
Posts: 2739
Joined: July 2007
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Yeah Its important, but it's just being a gentalman. Which isn't that difficult.
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And when you fall in love me we can dig a hole by the willow tree. Then I will fuck you untill you die and bury you and kiss this town good bye
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The Igneous Faction
Fuck the Kids
Posts: 2764
Joined: Dec. 2002
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If you were contributing something even remotely intelligent or well thought out to any discussion here I'd feel bad about telling you to shut your fucking mouth. But you're not, so I don't.
1. Notions of "being a gentleman" are antiquated and don't adequately engage these issues. Plus, they're, on the whole, pretty fucking sexist.
2. Women have sex with women pretty often, and issues of consent are still present.
3. Read this, you may learn something.
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DEATH OBSESSED since Dec. 08 2002,10:55
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LastofthePirates
Lovable Scamp
Posts: 2739
Joined: July 2007
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| Quote (The Igneous Faction @ Dec. 14 2008,12:49) | If you were contributing something even remotely intelligent or well thought out to any discussion here I'd feel bad about telling you to shut your fucking mouth. But you're not, so I don't.
1. Notions of "being a gentleman" are antiquated and don't adequately engage these issues. Plus, they're, on the whole, pretty fucking sexist.
2. Women have sex with women pretty often, and issues of consent are still present.
3. Read this, you may learn something. |
Antiquated?
Remind me of that when someone doesn't hold a door open for you. Or isn't polite, or looses their temper, or steals from you, or doesn't help you when you need it. Your mistaking Gentalmenly Virtue for somthing else.
You dont have to be male to be a Gentalman.
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And when you fall in love me we can dig a hole by the willow tree. Then I will fuck you untill you die and bury you and kiss this town good bye
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Insert_Blank
Repetitively Redundant
Posts: 106
Joined: Nov. 2008
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I agree with LastofthePirates. It's like in "Revolutionary Girl Utena" how she tries her best to be a prince and help people in trouble. The idea of "men are princes only" never crosses her mind. She just wants to do the right thing.
I think all of this is like... kind of common sense for me but I know a lot of people have trouble. One thing I love about my girlfriend is she's very clear about her boundaries and she let's me know as soon as she feels like I'm about to cross the line.
This is a great zine and it really should be taught in High School health class.
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LastofthePirates
Lovable Scamp
Posts: 2739
Joined: July 2007
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I got taught alot of this sort of stuff in secondary school. It just seems kind of funny to me that they don't teach you to respect women in sexual health classes
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And when you fall in love me we can dig a hole by the willow tree. Then I will fuck you untill you die and bury you and kiss this town good bye
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Insert_Blank
Repetitively Redundant
Posts: 106
Joined: Nov. 2008
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| Quote (LastofthePirates @ Dec. 14 2008,2:07) | | I got taught alot of this sort of stuff in secondary school. It just seems kind of funny to me that they don't teach you to respect women in sexual health classes |
They don't teach you about the Illuminati either... I think I'm seeing a connection...
All joking aside, they always say you should "respect the woman" but they never say exactly HOW to do that. Like you know, asking her if she's comfortable and if she says no stopping. Or even right at the beginning of the relationship/date/social thing how far she feels comfortable going and sticking to that.
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LastofthePirates
Lovable Scamp
Posts: 2739
Joined: July 2007
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| Quote (Insert_Blank @ Dec. 14 2008,2:14) | | Quote (LastofthePirates @ Dec. 14 2008,2:07) | | I got taught alot of this sort of stuff in secondary school. It just seems kind of funny to me that they don't teach you to respect women in sexual health classes |
They don't teach you about the Illuminati either... I think I'm seeing a connection...
All joking aside, they always say you should "respect the woman" but they never say exactly HOW to do that. Like you know, asking her if she's comfortable and if she says no stopping. Or even right at the beginning of the relationship/date/social thing how far she feels comfortable going and sticking to that. |
1. Asking "Are you ok?" is a bad idea. If she wern't fine she'd tell you, you boob
2. Keep your dick beaters to yourself, Unless your both alone and rolling around intertwined
The thing i can't get my head round is "It is not a Womyns resposibilty to tell a man his actions are making her uncomfortable" Who's Fucking resposibilty is then you DAPPY CUNT are we surpost to be empathinc now. obviously you it's easy enough read a girls body language but give me strength you women dont ask for much
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And when you fall in love me we can dig a hole by the willow tree. Then I will fuck you untill you die and bury you and kiss this town good bye
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Brass Knuckle Rocker
Fuck You, Miami!
Posts: 1472
Joined: Jan. 2008
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| Quote (Kyla! @ Dec. 14 2008,11:04) | | Be excellent to each other. |
Fixed for time traveling phone booth.
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I used to be a somebody in this town. Now, everybody has a gimmick. I was going to show them all. And I did!
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agrivatedplatypus
Irritated Monotreme
Posts: 885
Joined: Feb. 2007
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| Quote (LastofthePirates @ Dec. 14 2008,2:27) | | Quote (Insert_Blank @ Dec. 14 2008,2:14) | | Quote (LastofthePirates @ Dec. 14 2008,2:07) | | I got taught alot of this sort of stuff in secondary school. It just seems kind of funny to me that they don't teach you to respect women in sexual health classes |
They don't teach you about the Illuminati either... I think I'm seeing a connection...
All joking aside, they always say you should "respect the woman" but they never say exactly HOW to do that. Like you know, asking her if she's comfortable and if she says no stopping. Or even right at the beginning of the relationship/date/social thing how far she feels comfortable going and sticking to that. |
1. Asking "Are you ok?" is a bad idea. If she wern't fine she'd tell you, you boob
2. Keep your dick beaters to yourself, Unless your both alone and rolling around intertwined
The thing i can't get my head round is "It is not a Womyns resposibilty to tell a man his actions are making her uncomfortable" Who's Fucking resposibilty is then you DAPPY CUNT are we surpost to be empathinc now. obviously you it's easy enough read a girls body language but give me strength you women dont ask for much |
Asking is never a bad idea. Sometimes it's difficult to express feelings for whatever reason.
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"Here, put the moustaches in the hookah bag, and I'll carry it."
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LastofthePirates
Lovable Scamp
Posts: 2739
Joined: July 2007
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| Quote (Brass Knuckle Rocker @ Dec. 14 2008,3:19) | | Quote (Kyla! @ Dec. 14 2008,11:04) | | Be excellent to each other. |
Fixed for time traveling phone booth. |
Juan you have just summed up everything.
but, ooff
Juan wins the thread
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And when you fall in love me we can dig a hole by the willow tree. Then I will fuck you untill you die and bury you and kiss this town good bye
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newspeak lexicon
Hachi machi!
Posts: 4837
Joined: April 2003
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Lastofthepirates just DOESN'T FUCKING GET IT.
EVER.
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The only thing that is unbearable is that nothing is unbearable.
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AnarchoPunkKittens
let me make this perfectly queer...
Posts: 481
Joined: Sep. 2007
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Kyla, this is really informative and practical, totally well put together. I'm buying copies to distribute at my school that's full of pigs.
ps. r there any glbt specific zines around that deal with the same kinds of issues?
pps. being a gentleman just means being polite
edit:nvm found the glbt section of the website, great stuff
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I don't want money unless it's drenched in blood.
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hepcat hayley
dollface
Posts: 951
Joined: Oct. 2006
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| Quote (agrivatedplatypus @ Dec. 14 2008,3:29) | | Quote (LastofthePirates @ Dec. 14 2008,2:27) | | Quote (Insert_Blank @ Dec. 14 2008,2:14) | | Quote (LastofthePirates @ Dec. 14 2008,2:07) | | I got taught alot of this sort of stuff in secondary school. It just seems kind of funny to me that they don't teach you to respect women in sexual health classes |
They don't teach you about the Illuminati either... I think I'm seeing a connection...
All joking aside, they always say you should "respect the woman" but they never say exactly HOW to do that. Like you know, asking her if she's comfortable and if she says no stopping. Or even right at the beginning of the relationship/date/social thing how far she feels comfortable going and sticking to that. |
1. Asking "Are you ok?" is a bad idea. If she wern't fine she'd tell you, you boob
2. Keep your dick beaters to yourself, Unless your both alone and rolling around intertwined
The thing i can't get my head round is "It is not a Womyns resposibilty to tell a man his actions are making her uncomfortable" Who's Fucking resposibilty is then you DAPPY CUNT are we surpost to be empathinc now. obviously you it's easy enough read a girls body language but give me strength you women dont ask for much |
Asking is never a bad idea. Sometimes it's difficult to express feelings for whatever reason. |
^^^^^^ding ding ding
lastofthepirates SHUT THE FUCK UP. YOU DIDNT EVEN READ KYLAS POST. READ IT THEN READ THE ZINE. sexual molestation gets to where it does most of the time because the person in question is too uncomfortable to speak up for themselves.
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"Excuse me Sir, you are under arrest for looking at the moon"
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Felix
Paul Clifford
Posts: 467
Joined: June 2008
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I just read it, and it was very well written and put together. I'll post some reactions once I've digested it.
Judging by lastofthepirates' typing, he might be impaired at the moment, so probably cut him some slack because he's not usually quite like this.
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www.myspace.com/felixdevereaux
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The Igneous Faction
Fuck the Kids
Posts: 2764
Joined: Dec. 2002
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I don't cut anyone slack because they've voluntarily made themselves stupider than they were before (which was pretty fucking stupid).
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DEATH OBSESSED since Dec. 08 2002,10:55
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LowNote
..
Posts: 3862
Joined: Mar. 2003
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He always types like that.
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O bailan todos o no baila nadie
Music Should Never Be Harmless.
-Robbie Robertson
the public gets what they deserve, not what they demand
unless we all decide to be a business, not a band
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hepcat hayley
dollface
Posts: 951
Joined: Oct. 2006
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its "SUPPOSED". GAH. learn how to spell.
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"Excuse me Sir, you are under arrest for looking at the moon"
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Felix
Paul Clifford
Posts: 467
Joined: June 2008
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No, I mean, there are sentences he's saying that don't even make any sense at all, like they're just strung together nonsense ("Who's Fucking resposibilty is then you DAPPY CUNT are we surpost to be empathinc")
I'm not saying he's not being a jerk, I'm just saying maybe he's drunk and wouldn't normally say that (which is disturbing in its own way because it implies that normally he would like to be doesn't - but that's a rambling for another day.)
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www.myspace.com/felixdevereaux
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LastofthePirates
Lovable Scamp
Posts: 2739
Joined: July 2007
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| Quote (AnarchoPunkKittens @ Dec. 14 2008,4:11) | | pps. being a gentleman just means being polite |
No it really isn't.
Alot of people are polite, alot of people arn't gentalmen
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And when you fall in love me we can dig a hole by the willow tree. Then I will fuck you untill you die and bury you and kiss this town good bye
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AnarchoPunkKittens
let me make this perfectly queer...
Posts: 481
Joined: Sep. 2007
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| Quote (LastofthePirates @ Dec. 14 2008,5:26) | | Quote (AnarchoPunkKittens @ Dec. 14 2008,4:11) | | pps. being a gentleman just means being polite |
No it really isn't.
Alot of people are polite, alot of people arn't gentalmen |
n/t, also already over it
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I don't want money unless it's drenched in blood.
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