I Feel Phunky
Sherlock Homie
Joined: Sep. 2006
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Thoughts on all of this?
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I take money from bitches and sell drugs to the community.
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Freshmaker
Defcon 2.8
Joined: Dec. 2006
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I've noticed that it makes for lazy journalism. "It was reported on wikileaks...but I'm too lazy to confirm it independently." It's as bad as any article that quotes twitter.
On the other hand, I think it's hilarious that people are calling for an Australian living in Sweden of treason against the US.
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"I know I was born and I know that I'll die. The in between is mine" - Eddie Vedder (yeah...that's right...eddie vedder)
"And who the fuck is Sam Gursky?" - Big Jon from Chicago
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I Feel Phunky
Sherlock Homie
Joined: Sep. 2006
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I've noticed that in journalism refering to something noted in wikileaks, not pertaining the wikileaks situation.
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I take money from bitches and sell drugs to the community.
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Aria
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Joined: Jan. 2009
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I noticed a lot of people interviewed start their statements with "I haven't read much of it but..."
In any case, I think the purpose of the site is very interesting and legitimate, even though I'm not quite sure about the motives behind it.
There's way more talk about the issues of it then there is actually the material.
But I admit I don't know heaps about it currently.
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ariana
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Joined: Mar. 2010
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NAMEDROP ALERT: this summer i interned at the washington post and was lucky enough to get to hang out in the same room as bob woodward for an hour or two. i asked him what he thought of the wikileaks situation and he basically said he sees no merit in it, and that people now occasionally call him 'woodyleaks.' LULZ
i have so many mixed feelings about wikileaks. obviously, the site's contents have the potential to be very dangerous and the lack of any sort of editorial oversight is problematic. however, i support its existence, for the most part (and agree that journalists should NOT simply rehash information that was revealed on the site).
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IMA tiGrrrLily
ferlumpin' peen
Joined: June 2007
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I was just thinking earlier today how weird it was that there wasn't a wikileaks thread on here yet. . .
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"Yeah - maybe someday, when I'm sick of being disillusioned, I'll go back to academia and poison another generation of wastrels."
"where's my socks?"
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Freshmaker
Defcon 2.8
Joined: Dec. 2006
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| Quote (Aria @ Dec. 09 2010,20:03) | I noticed a lot of people interviewed start their statements with "I haven't read much of it but..."
In any case, I think the purpose of the site is very interesting and legitimate, even though I'm not quite sure about the motives behind it.
There's way more talk about the issues of it then there is actually the material.
But I admit I don't know heaps about it currently. |
I'm certainly not interested in reading most of the original documents. I had enough of that writing history papers.
I guess the worst part is that anyone is more than welcome to make up anything they want and say it was on wikileaks so it must be true. Pakistan, a wonderful authoritarian mix of passionate islam and south asian culture that makes the nuttiest country in the world, published a pack of lies about the US and India claiming it was on wikileaks.
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"I know I was born and I know that I'll die. The in between is mine" - Eddie Vedder (yeah...that's right...eddie vedder)
"And who the fuck is Sam Gursky?" - Big Jon from Chicago
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Justafriend
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Joined: May 2002
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Julian Assange = Scorpio.. or at least in my dreams!
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newspeak lexicon - I am downright amazed at what I can destroy with just a hammer.
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I Feel Phunky
Sherlock Homie
Joined: Sep. 2006
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Also, what does everyone think about those sex allegations?
Seems like an awfully convenient way to bring someone down...
But anyone could be an asshole.
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I take money from bitches and sell drugs to the community.
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barrow
i'm going in
Joined: Oct. 2005
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Didn't care at all until script kiddies started DDOS'ing websites in support of Wikileaks. Always a good time.
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Justafriend
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Joined: May 2002
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| Quote (I Feel Phunky @ Dec. 10 2010,08:03) | Also, what does everyone think about those sex allegations?
Seems like an awfully convenient way to bring someone down...
But anyone could be an asshole. |
Well the charges certainly don't warrant to be on Interpol's "most-wanted" list.. ... but no does mean no, and at he very least he should respond to the charges.
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newspeak lexicon - I am downright amazed at what I can destroy with just a hammer.
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Matt the Knife
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Joined: May 2004
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| Quote (Justafriend @ Dec. 10 2010,08:52) | | Quote (I Feel Phunky @ Dec. 10 2010,08:03) | Also, what does everyone think about those sex allegations?
Seems like an awfully convenient way to bring someone down...
But anyone could be an asshole. |
Well the charges certainly don't warrant to be on Interpol's "most-wanted" list.. ... but no does mean no, and at he very least he should respond to the charges. |
Heard an investigative report from Reuters the other day on NPR who was tracking the case and allegations. He even sounded incredulous. Also, these allegations were not pursued by the local prosecutor due to lack of evidence & contradictory stories, then when the regional prosecutor took it to a judge and the judge dropped the charges. Then the two women hired a lawyer and essentially muscled the national prosecutors office into taking the case and ramming it thru the courts.
I'm not saying Assange is innocent or that these women are lying but it seems really fishy, and prosecutors and judges in Sweden even seemed reluctant to try the case because the evidence and women were so unreliable. The second woman, Miss W, admits she was "stalking" Assange. Plus, these allegations popping up all of a sudden in the international media days after the leaks is about the most suspicious timing ever.
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shameless self promotion:
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DrewEntropy
Our quest is vain.
Joined: May 2008
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the majority of the documents i've read so far honestly don't have much content worth noting, and a lot of them read like news briefings for politicians. also, they're written in political jargon i'm unfamiliar with. News sites seem to be finding some good ones though, and reading through those i can see some concern. one of them is actually a list of international infrastructure "critical to america's interests".
anonymous attacking on behalf of wikileaks i can support, considering how irrelevant it seems most of their previous actions have been. also, i feel pretty certain the allegations against assange are just convenient bits from his past that they can use to cage him. from what i've read, both parties involved don't seem like reliable sources of evidence.
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Madam Lulu, bring me more wine! Arson and escaping authorities always makes me thirsty!
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I Feel Phunky
Sherlock Homie
Joined: Sep. 2006
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Okay who here is excited for the "thermonuclear file leak"
From what I've read and expect of the powers that be, NSA could probably crack the two hundred and something digit code.
Either the information is embarrassing and/or detrimental or it's just a bluff filled ton of random information or a rehash or previously leaked info.
Either way, I'd imagine it might leave the government with the option of making that information public themselves, or wait and see if anything happens.
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I take money from bitches and sell drugs to the community.
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I Feel Phunky
Sherlock Homie
Joined: Sep. 2006
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Also, I read this today, and though, not the most credible source of information, I found it to be an interesting comment.
What if the wikileaks thermonuclear leak turns to be the "catalyst" this reporter fears.
Also, it would be cool if a series of hackers created some sort of network to spam every email account on the planet with a concise dossier of all the important highlights of the wikileak's that exist today and have also yet to be released.
The only way to combat that would be a total media blackout or the temporary disabling of the internet, if that's even possible. But I'm sure that would insight a ton of anger.
The one question that burns in the back of my head, one that I can't seem to find any information on, is where the extensive amount of funds for everything come from. I hardly believe there can be enough money from this series of legal funds and internet escapades to continue much longer, especially with easy credit and paypal donations disabled.
There have to be a series of philanthropist, and corporate support that has somehow gone unnamed. Something like this can't exist without someone looking to turn power in their favor.
But yeah, when all is said and done, most of the leaks are relatively trivial. The action itself is a statement similar to sneaking into someone's house and rearranging their furniture. Doing this just reminds people, in this case our politicians, that no matter how safe you think you are, someone can always fuck with you.
I'm actually really proud that this stuff is going on, it gives me a sense of hope that the bastards can't get me down. But I'll never think I'm safe.
I read another article on cnn, only it was more cynical and came off a lot like US propaganda.
This
I like how reassuring he is that there are, in fact, people in charge of the internet. LAWLZ
This might be true to the general public, but we all know that this isn't true for moderately computer literate joes. At best, you could shut the internet down (or if your lucky, find a solid IP and send in a load of gestapo to curb stomps some nerdarios) but it's very apparent that the privatization of the internet in so many different places (coffee shops, book stores and even mother fucking wendy's) has opened up hundreds of different avenues for a person to access open networks. Not to mention, making things a lot more convoluted to combat.
Now I know the group Anonymous has been taking responsibility for disrupting mastercard, visa, and paypal. And in another selected interview from cnn, report that they plan on stopping when Assange is deemed a whistle blower rather than a criminal.
Well, granted Anonymous really doesn't exist, and this is probably confusing guise of a sub group of hackers assuming the identity of Anonymous (which technically the point of anonymous to begin with) in order to hide in plain site on the internet. I've seen some of the things anonymous is responsible for and frankly it borderlines between abuse of power and just plain harassment, and given their rhetoric, though completely contradictory of their general mission statement, I would assume they couldn't be collected enough to pull something like this off. Or maybe they did.
However, I wouldn't discontinue these assaults on selected targets. Anonymous' assaults, coupled with Assange's continued whistle-blowing and if we're lucky, some sort of honest and organized alternative political group, we might be a few steps closer to straightening things out!
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I take money from bitches and sell drugs to the community.
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roboticvampire
Agent Topanga Lawrence
Joined: Aug. 2005
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| Quote (I Feel Phunky @ Dec. 10 2010,09:54) | Okay who here is excited for the "thermonuclear file leak"
From what I've read and expect of the powers that be, NSA could probably crack the two hundred and something digit code.
Either the information is embarrassing and/or detrimental or it's just a bluff filled ton of random information or a rehash or previously leaked info.
Either way, I'd imagine it might leave the government with the option of making that information public themselves, or wait and see if anything happens. |
I am! I'm betting aliens. Well, I'm hoping it's aliens.
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I Feel Phunky
Sherlock Homie
Joined: Sep. 2006
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| Quote (roboticvampire @ Dec. 10 2010,13:23) | | Quote (I Feel Phunky @ Dec. 10 2010,09:54) | Okay who here is excited for the "thermonuclear file leak"
From what I've read and expect of the powers that be, NSA could probably crack the two hundred and something digit code.
Either the information is embarrassing and/or detrimental or it's just a bluff filled ton of random information or a rehash or previously leaked info.
Either way, I'd imagine it might leave the government with the option of making that information public themselves, or wait and see if anything happens. |
I am! I'm betting aliens. Well, I'm hoping it's aliens. |
I never even considered how mind-fucking the unreleased info could be.
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I take money from bitches and sell drugs to the community.
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Zac
Propaganda by the Deed
Joined: Nov. 2010
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I actually did the Assange rape charges for my Current Events in Civics. My teachers disagreed with me, but I find it odd that he's being hunted down for rape charges in Sweden, though he's an Australian, and the fact that rape charges somehow get him on Interpol's most wanted list.
The timing is also very suspicious, too. It's probably just the U.S. pulling strings, but the facts are still blurry. By the by, my teachers probably disagree with me because they are not only extremely patriotic(though not that conservative), but also the fact they're employed by the gov't, and none of them are likely to speak out.... except my English teacher, but he's a punk rocker.
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"I left in love, in laughter, and in truth and wherever truth, love and laughter abide, I am there in spirit." -Bill Hicks
"Not even in the face of Armageddon. Never compromise." -Rorschach
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Casper
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Joined: Nov. 2007
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| Quote (I Feel Phunky @ Dec. 10 2010,12:54) | Okay who here is excited for the "thermonuclear file leak"
From what I've read and expect of the powers that be, NSA could probably crack the two hundred and something digit code.
Either the information is embarrassing and/or detrimental or it's just a bluff filled ton of random information or a rehash or previously leaked info.
Either way, I'd imagine it might leave the government with the option of making that information public themselves, or wait and see if anything happens. |
From what I've been reading it's nothing new, but just an encrypted packet of all the cables. If Assange or Wikileaks gets nuked or something, they just tweet the password and suddenly all the people who downloaded the file have all the documents. It's basically a surefire way for Assange to make sure the government can never hide them again and makes nuking wikileaks less of a worthwhile option.
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roboticvampire
Agent Topanga Lawrence
Joined: Aug. 2005
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| Quote (Casper @ Dec. 10 2010,13:50) | | Quote (I Feel Phunky @ Dec. 10 2010,12:54) | Okay who here is excited for the "thermonuclear file leak"
From what I've read and expect of the powers that be, NSA could probably crack the two hundred and something digit code.
Either the information is embarrassing and/or detrimental or it's just a bluff filled ton of random information or a rehash or previously leaked info.
Either way, I'd imagine it might leave the government with the option of making that information public themselves, or wait and see if anything happens. |
From what I've been reading it's nothing new, but just an encrypted packet of all the cables. If Assange or Wikileaks gets nuked or something, they just tweet the password and suddenly all the people who downloaded the file have all the documents. It's basically a surefire way for Assange to make sure the government can never hide them again and makes nuking wikileaks less of a worthwhile option. |
But then why bother encrypting them at all, if it's something that is currently being released and will eventually be available completely anyway. If it is just the cables, it's not so much an insurance policy as a backup method of distribution. Since it's there not just as insurance against Wikileaks being shut down, but also against Assange being imprisoned or killed, it would make more sense for it to be something new and so potentially damaging that it would stop any government entity from attempting anything. This whole thing is already straight out of some Dan Brown political thriller, it at least has to be something sexy like top secret weapons schematics. Or aliens.
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Justafriend
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Joined: May 2002
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| Quote (roboticvampire @ Dec. 10 2010,18:48) | | Quote (Casper @ Dec. 10 2010,13:50) | | Quote (I Feel Phunky @ Dec. 10 2010,12:54) | Okay who here is excited for the "thermonuclear file leak"
From what I've read and expect of the powers that be, NSA could probably crack the two hundred and something digit code.
Either the information is embarrassing and/or detrimental or it's just a bluff filled ton of random information or a rehash or previously leaked info.
Either way, I'd imagine it might leave the government with the option of making that information public themselves, or wait and see if anything happens. |
From what I've been reading it's nothing new, but just an encrypted packet of all the cables. If Assange or Wikileaks gets nuked or something, they just tweet the password and suddenly all the people who downloaded the file have all the documents. It's basically a surefire way for Assange to make sure the government can never hide them again and makes nuking wikileaks less of a worthwhile option. |
But then why bother encrypting them at all, if it's something that is currently being released and will eventually be available completely anyway. If it is just the cables, it's not so much an insurance policy as a backup method of distribution. Since it's there not just as insurance against Wikileaks being shut down, but also against Assange being imprisoned or killed, it would make more sense for it to be something new and so potentially damaging that it would stop any government entity from attempting anything. This whole thing is already straight out of some Dan Brown political thriller, it at least has to be something sexy like top secret weapons schematics. Or aliens. |
Something like 800,000 people have Top Secret clearance in this country.. thats bigger than the size of San Francisco.. (though it would be something to see San Fran get Top Secret Clearance!)
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newspeak lexicon - I am downright amazed at what I can destroy with just a hammer.
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Casper
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Joined: Nov. 2007
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| Quote (Justafriend @ Dec. 10 2010,18:58) | | Quote (roboticvampire @ Dec. 10 2010,18:48) | | Quote (Casper @ Dec. 10 2010,13:50) | | Quote (I Feel Phunky @ Dec. 10 2010,12:54) | Okay who here is excited for the "thermonuclear file leak"
From what I've read and expect of the powers that be, NSA could probably crack the two hundred and something digit code.
Either the information is embarrassing and/or detrimental or it's just a bluff filled ton of random information or a rehash or previously leaked info.
Either way, I'd imagine it might leave the government with the option of making that information public themselves, or wait and see if anything happens. |
From what I've been reading it's nothing new, but just an encrypted packet of all the cables. If Assange or Wikileaks gets nuked or something, they just tweet the password and suddenly all the people who downloaded the file have all the documents. It's basically a surefire way for Assange to make sure the government can never hide them again and makes nuking wikileaks less of a worthwhile option. |
But then why bother encrypting them at all, if it's something that is currently being released and will eventually be available completely anyway. If it is just the cables, it's not so much an insurance policy as a backup method of distribution. Since it's there not just as insurance against Wikileaks being shut down, but also against Assange being imprisoned or killed, it would make more sense for it to be something new and so potentially damaging that it would stop any government entity from attempting anything. This whole thing is already straight out of some Dan Brown political thriller, it at least has to be something sexy like top secret weapons schematics. Or aliens. |
Something like 800,000 people have Top Secret clearance in this country.. thats bigger than the size of San Francisco.. (though it would be something to see San Fran get Top Secret Clearance!) |
I'm not entirely sure. From what I've read it's all the unedited cables, meaning plaintext and unformated and full of jargon. Most people don't realize this, but Wikileaks has only released 1,200 of the cables so far, which is only about 0.5% of what they have. Right now they're cleaning them up and publishing them, but if something were to happen -- say Assange gets black-bagged by the CIA or something -- everybody else has the dox already and some other team just needs to step up and continue editing them.
It'd be a lot cooler for it to contain some kind of super-secret shit, but there's no good reason to believe it. They've already exposed pfizer for blackmailing the Nigerian government to stop a lawsuit against them for giving a shit-ton of people meningitis, and Bank of America's stock already shit bricks after Assange said that some of the cables merely mentioned it.
This whole situation is awesome. I've read discussions where people compared it to 9/11, not in terms of damage, but how it could change global geopolitical reality. I don't know if I agree with that exactly, but it really is exposing where everybody stands and how shitty our country can be.
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Freshmaker
Defcon 2.8
Joined: Dec. 2006
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| Quote (Zac @ Dec. 10 2010,16:20) | I actually did the Assange rape charges for my Current Events in Civics. My teachers disagreed with me, but I find it odd that he's being hunted down for rape charges in Sweden, though he's an Australian, and the fact that rape charges somehow get him on Interpol's most wanted list.
The timing is also very suspicious, too. It's probably just the U.S. pulling strings, but the facts are still blurry. By the by, my teachers probably disagree with me because they are not only extremely patriotic(though not that conservative), but also the fact they're employed by the gov't, and none of them are likely to speak out.... except my English teacher, but he's a punk rocker. |
Um...the alleged crime took place in Sweden where he was living and having consensual sex with a disupute over condom use (to paraphrase his response).
I am curious about international laws on espionage. He wasn't in the US when committing/assisting in a crime against the US. And sorry, whether you love it or hate it, leaking top secret documents is a crime. The private who did it ain't seeing daylight for a long time. I would assume it's something for which you could extradite the accomplices.
And I doubt your teachers disagree with you because they're employed by the government. They probably believe that there are things organizations can do that shouldn't be seen by the general public. I think the LA school district wants to release all teacher evaluations. Naturally the teachers wouldn't want that. If you disagree, imagine putting your grades and discipline files online so any potential employer (or girlfriend) can look them up.
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"I know I was born and I know that I'll die. The in between is mine" - Eddie Vedder (yeah...that's right...eddie vedder)
"And who the fuck is Sam Gursky?" - Big Jon from Chicago
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DrewEntropy
Our quest is vain.
Joined: May 2008
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I'm with you, doug. the first thing my friends and I looked for in the cable leak was aliens.
also, i didn't realize the assange was on interpol's most wanted. there's no way that's because of the allegations.
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Madam Lulu, bring me more wine! Arson and escaping authorities always makes me thirsty!
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akuoni
too annoying to be real
Joined: Nov. 2008
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this whole wikileaks thing seems pretty cool to me, a hackers revolt against corruption, the only hitch is those pesky rape charges. yea its possible that those women are lying and yea its pretty damn convenient that these charges crop up now but its also very possible that this man is a class A scum fuck. i honestly dont know whether Assange is guilty or not and neither does anyone else at this point. So while these doubts hang over my head i'm going to hold off before making this guy my anarco-hero
this post it bitingly sarcastic,condescending and not very well thought out. i apologize (for the condescending-ness mostly)
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I am honestly laughing out loud at this very moment
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Matt the Knife
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Joined: May 2004
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| Quote (Freshmaker @ Dec. 10 2010,20:41) | | Quote (Zac @ Dec. 10 2010,16:20) | I actually did the Assange rape charges for my Current Events in Civics. My teachers disagreed with me, but I find it odd that he's being hunted down for rape charges in Sweden, though he's an Australian, and the fact that rape charges somehow get him on Interpol's most wanted list.
The timing is also very suspicious, too. It's probably just the U.S. pulling strings, but the facts are still blurry. By the by, my teachers probably disagree with me because they are not only extremely patriotic(though not that conservative), but also the fact they're employed by the gov't, and none of them are likely to speak out.... except my English teacher, but he's a punk rocker. |
Um...the alleged crime took place in Sweden where he was living and having consensual sex with a disupute over condom use (to paraphrase his response).
I am curious about international laws on espionage. He wasn't in the US when committing/assisting in a crime against the US. And sorry, whether you love it or hate it, leaking top secret documents is a crime. The private who did it ain't seeing daylight for a long time. I would assume it's something for which you could extradite the accomplices.
And I doubt your teachers disagree with you because they're employed by the government. They probably believe that there are things organizations can do that shouldn't be seen by the general public. I think the LA school district wants to release all teacher evaluations. Naturally the teachers wouldn't want that. If you disagree, imagine putting your grades and discipline files online so any potential employer (or girlfriend) can look them up. |
The only problem with espionage laws is that you have to be caught in the US doing it if yr a foreign national in order to be tried for it. If Assange was given these documents while in Australia and he leaked them while in Australia, the US has no right to seek extradition since he technically did not violate any US laws while on US soil. Certainly, the Australian government would deny fight the extradition tooth and nail as would most countries. It's a slippery slope. For instance, cannabis consumption in Canada is decriminalized. It'd be like the US trying to arrest and prosecute a Canadian citizen who smoked weed in Canada that was grown in Northern California. Unless the Canadian drove to California, bought it and than transported it back into Canada, the US has no jurisdiction.
You can deny him access to the country, suspend any visas he may have, put him on no-fly lists and freeze any American assets, but you can't extradite him because he leaked documents that are classified Top Secret by the US government. Especially since he didn't steal the documents himself. Wikileaks has lawyers, I assure you. Assange knew what he was doing.
Also, the US objection to Wikileaks is blatantly hypocritical. What do you think the US government does with this information if not blackmail/extort foreign powers? The only thing Wikileaks did was made it available to everyone as opposed to being under the sole control of the State Department. The conduct of diplomacy won't change either. The level of security may heighten but it's not like all of a sudden e-mail & cell phones became unreliable mediums for back-channel communications. They have been since the get-go. If any should be in trouble, it should be the IT departments for the foreign ministries involved.
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shameless self promotion:
www.myspace.com/matthewlandismusic
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Casper
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Joined: Nov. 2007
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| Quote (akuoni @ Dec. 10 2010,21:58) | this whole wikileaks thing seems pretty cool to me, a hackers revolt against corruption, the only hitch is those pesky rape charges. yea its possible that those women are lying and yea its pretty damn convenient that these charges crop up now but its also very possible that this man is a class A scum fuck. i honestly dont know whether Assange is guilty or not and neither does anyone else at this point. So while these doubts hang over my head i'm going to hold off before making this guy my anarco-hero
this post it bitingly sarcastic,condescending and not very well thought out. i apologize (for the condescending-ness mostly) |
The key issue here is that rape as defined by Sweden is very different than how it's commonly defined in the US. It's been confirmed by both parties that the sex was consensual. In the evidence file there are text messages from one of the women saying something like "I'm having a great time with great people, yadda yadda yadda." Rape in Sweden can be considered a disagreement over condom use, which is what it was in this case. It's kind of like how in some US states any sex where the female is intoxicated is considered in the eyes of the law to be rape.
It's just, in this case, these misunderstandings make for an awfully effective smear campaign. Awfully convenient, isn't it?
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Freshmaker
Defcon 2.8
Joined: Dec. 2006
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| Quote (Matt the Knife @ Dec. 10 2010,22:02) | | The only problem with espionage laws is that you have to be caught in the US doing it if yr a foreign national in order to be tried for it. If Assange was given these documents while in Australia and he leaked them while in Australia, the US has no right to seek extradition since he technically did not violate any US laws while on US soil. Certainly, the Australian government would deny fight the extradition tooth and nail as would most countries. It's a slippery slope. For instance, cannabis consumption in Canada is decriminalized. It'd be like the US trying to arrest and prosecute a Canadian citizen who smoked weed in Canada that was grown in Northern California. Unless the Canadian drove to California, bought it and than transported it back into Canada, the US has no jurisdiction. |
Smoking pot and espionage aren't quite the same. I see it closer to an international fraud case. Imagine if Madoff had lived in Canada. He wasn't living here but there's a victim in the US and some actions had taken place in the US or at the very least originated here. I'm fairly certain that sex tourism (aka flying to thailand to molest kids) is illegal, so you can be prosecuted for something you in a foreign country.
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"I know I was born and I know that I'll die. The in between is mine" - Eddie Vedder (yeah...that's right...eddie vedder)
"And who the fuck is Sam Gursky?" - Big Jon from Chicago
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Matt the Knife
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Joined: May 2004
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| Quote (Freshmaker @ Dec. 10 2010,22:27) | | Quote (Matt the Knife @ Dec. 10 2010,22:02) | | The only problem with espionage laws is that you have to be caught in the US doing it if yr a foreign national in order to be tried for it. If Assange was given these documents while in Australia and he leaked them while in Australia, the US has no right to seek extradition since he technically did not violate any US laws while on US soil. Certainly, the Australian government would deny fight the extradition tooth and nail as would most countries. It's a slippery slope. For instance, cannabis consumption in Canada is decriminalized. It'd be like the US trying to arrest and prosecute a Canadian citizen who smoked weed in Canada that was grown in Northern California. Unless the Canadian drove to California, bought it and than transported it back into Canada, the US has no jurisdiction. |
Smoking pot and espionage aren't quite the same. I see it closer to an international fraud case. Imagine if Madoff had lived in Canada. He wasn't living here but there's a victim in the US and some actions had taken place in the US or at the very least originated here. I'm fairly certain that sex tourism (aka flying to thailand to molest kids) is illegal, so you can be prosecuted for something you in a foreign country. |
Right, but that's because the US is treaty bound to protect CITIZENS of other countries from abuses at the hands of US citizens due to the various UN Human Rights Conventions and Conventions for the Protection of Women and Children and the various UN/Interpol joint efforts to curb sex trafficking. In the Madoff example, it's because a US citizen suffered injury. No one is treaty bound NOT engage in espionage since most governments don't even officially recognize it occurs. Which is why it's so difficult to prosecute Assange. The only way to prosecute is if a terrorist uses Wikileaks material to stage an attack on the US in some capacity. Then you MIGHT get a conspiracy charge to stick against him, but I highly doubt it. Since the information was disseminated by so many media outlets, it'd be impossible to prove Assange leaked these documents with the intention of aiding terrorists in pulling off a successful attack. And even then, you'd have to prove he provided real material "aid & comfort". I also doubt Australia would allow him to be extradited (since if you charged him as a co-conspiritor or accomplice, he'd face the death penalty). What's more there's the interesting question of whether governments should be protected as in the same way citizens are under international law. They're not really. They're a very distinct sort of entity. Assange didn't actually commit a crime against a PERSON (which addresses the Madoff example you used)...the only things that suffered injury were the reputations of the US diplomatic core & some corporations. Outside of suing him for libel or slander (which as a corporate officer or public official is almost IMPOSSIBLE to make since you are so much a part of public discourse the standards for what constitutes libel or slander are incredibly high), there really isn't much legal recourse under international or domestic law at the moment. Which simply adds to me suspicion of the charges in Sweden.
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shameless self promotion:
www.myspace.com/matthewlandismusic
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Freshmaker
Defcon 2.8
Joined: Dec. 2006
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| Quote (Matt the Knife @ Dec. 11 2010,00:38) | | Which simply adds to me suspicion of the charges in Sweden. |
That's obviously just a ruse to keep him in custody while they figure out how to charge him with something.
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"I know I was born and I know that I'll die. The in between is mine" - Eddie Vedder (yeah...that's right...eddie vedder)
"And who the fuck is Sam Gursky?" - Big Jon from Chicago
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Inferno Board » Inferno » World/Inferno F.S. » Wikileaks